Kaylinda Bunnell's Playbook: Empowering Women in Football Officiating

Imagine stepping onto a football field as a female official, ready to face the unique challenges that come with a male-dominated sport. That's exactly what our guest, the tenacious Kaylinda Bunnell from Colorado Springs, has done. Drawing on her firsthand experience, we explore the complexities and advantages that female officials navigate in the world of football. Kaylinda's journey from a supportive spouse on the sideline to earning her own stripes is truly inspiring, offering a wealth of insights and tips for aspiring female officials.

In our conversation, Kaylinda brings to light the extra efforts often required by women in officiating. We tackle the apprehensions women may feel when they haven't played the sport, and how to deftly handle pregame issues. But it's not all uphill; Kaylinda also shares the unique benefits that come with being a female official. Get ready for some tangible advice on expressing confidence, learning the sport, understanding the rules, and managing interactions with coaches.

We want to extend a heartfelt thanks to Kaylinda and Zach from Michigan, who submitted our first listener question on Crossfield Mechanics.  So whether you're a woman interested in football officiating or a new official seeking guidance, we hope this episode provides you with valuable insights. Remember, you're always welcome to reach out to us with your questions via YourFirstDowns.com. Let’s break the barriers and get more women in the stripes!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

If you're a woman and wanted to know more about officiating in this male-dominated sport, stick around. This week, Kirk and I talked to one of our most successful female officials in the Colorado Springs area about getting more women in the stripes and on the football field. Also, Kirk and I will take our first listener question. All this and more on Week 5 of your First Downs. Welcome to your First Downs.

Speaker 2: 0:24

The podcast dedicated to helping new high school football officials. Here are your hosts, Joel Pogar and Kirk Russell from the Colorado Football Officials Association.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Hey everybody, welcome to the show Week 5 of your First Downs. I'm your host, joel Pogar, with my co-host, kirk Russell Kirk, how are you doing tonight?

Speaker 3: 0:43

All good. Thanks, Joel. Happy to be back.

Speaker 1: 0:46

Well, kirk, as we enter Week 5, I'd like to get right into the show, but a couple of milestones and announcements for our audience. So, number one in this past week we crossed our 100 subscriber mark for the podcast, which is a huge success. So I want to thank everybody for listening and for the feedback for Kirk and I.

Speaker 3: 1:02

Yeah, Joel, I wish I had one of those party horns. That's pretty cool. We got that many listeners.

Speaker 1: 1:08

And the second thing is we got our first listener question. Let's dip into the mailbag and then we will get to our guests for the week. So it's from Zach in Michigan and he says hi, kirk and Joel, thanks so much for doing this podcast. I'm a new official this year and I'm a little confused about Crossfield Mechanics. I haven't heard you guys mention it on the show and my crew that I'm going to be with this fall keeps talking about it, but I'm not sure I understand what this means. Could you spend a few minutes explaining this and is this something I should be paying attention to and maybe to add just a little more clarity to Zach's question? This would be for wing officials and how they communicate back and forth to each other on the field during a particular play and maybe help each other get the spot of the ball.

Speaker 3: 1:51

Boy, that's a great question and, zach, thank you for throwing that out to us. One of the things I'm going to make clear is I think the answer will vary from area to area. I've been doing this for many years and I've tried to develop Colorado's version of the answer to that and what I've told officials that the Crossfield Mechanic is more than just at the pre-snap, when you're looking across the field to make sure you're in agreement with players and their alignment. To me, the more important piece of all that is at the end of a play, when there's action in your legs and yet the progress is stopped in bounds and gets pushed, maybe even out of bounds, back towards you. You're in kind of a survival mode and we have a signal that is our Crossfield Mechanic signal. We wind the clock, which a lot of officials think that it's to tell the press box not to stop the clock, which is kind of a foolish answer because the press box doesn't stop it unless we give them the timeout signal. So that's kind of a silly response. What we say is we wind that clock indicating the progress was in bounds.

Speaker 3: 3:01

That tells your fellow official that you have to trust that can see across the field and get a good spot on that forward progress, because you are not going to be in a decent position to get that spot. And so it tells him heads up, I need help. He lines up his feet at that spot. You come out of a mess with players in your feet. You look up and you see your wing official on the opposite side giving the quote Crossfield Mechanic Spot. You move into that spot. Everybody says wow, this officials great, he knew exactly where that forward progress was. Little do they know. You had some help across the field, joe. You got anything to add to that?

Speaker 1: 3:40

No, I think that was a great explanation, kirk, and just to reiterate what you had said, this is probably going to be a slightly different mechanic Depending upon your area and where you're located in the country. So just encourage you to check with your local associations act and see what their specific mechanic requirements would be. But bottom line it's to help each other to have the wings, help each other across the field to get the spot when you Got a lot of players at your feet or going out of bounds. So thanks again for the questions act and let's get right into our guests for this week. So we do have a special guest and kind of a unique topic and, kirk, I believe you arrange the guests for the week. So I'm going to let you do the introductions.

Speaker 3: 4:17

So I am. I'm so excited to introduce Kay Linda banell. She We've crossed paths over the years, got to know her as a spouse of a fellow official out of the Colorado Springs area, and Kay Linda is just as you'll listen to her, she's just an awesome personality and we're excited to talk about Females getting involved in in the sport and and how they, how it's different for them, and it's just going to be a fun conversation. Kay Linda has has been officiating for five years down in Colorado Springs and I got to know her. Her husband, james, had.

Speaker 3: 4:55

I don't know that we necessarily work games together, but he's just. He's an awesome official and Kay Linda got involved and got her first championship game this last fall, which is exciting. She's got a lot of talent and she's got the skill set that we're definitely looking for in this game, and I just learned that she's now the vice president of their their area down in Colorado Springs, which means she's got a lot of leadership skills as well off the field. So this this is going to be a great podcast. So welcome, kay Linda. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2: 5:24

Thank you, kurt. Thank you, joel. I I really appreciate all the kind words and hopefully, hopefully I can encourage some other women to come out and do this as well awesome.

Speaker 3: 5:35

So we got, we got some questions that we want to throw at you and Just want to know what, what it, what it looks like through your lens and officiating football. Can you tell us kind of how, how that feels like the good, bad and ugly of officiating in a sport that doesn't necessarily invite that Female gender into it? Naturally, and it I've often said a lot of times, and most of the time Female officials have to be better than their male counterpart, counterpart to find success in this, and so can you share with us Maybe some of that tough stuff that you'd have to deal with?

Speaker 2: 6:13

Yeah, kirk, I think you're accurate in Part of that, in that we do. We as women do have to face some adversities going into a sport that's dominated by men, both on the field and officiating what. There will be times where it's very intimidating Knowing that you are the pure minority. So you have to be willing to put forth a little bit more effort, I think in your mechanics and knowing the rules and you know being careful how you address coaches and make sure that you have confidence, but you're not arrogant. It's been a, it's been fun for me, but I also I also had a little bit of of positive avenue Because of my husband, who officiated for about six years prior to me, getting involved and I say involved, although I was on the sideline supporting him and his crew, tracking penalties, helping when there wasn't a chain crew available or or asking questions along the way. It was an avenue for me to get involved for a few years before I actually took the challenge of Getting on the field myself.

Speaker 1: 7:39

So let's extend that question just a little bit more. So Kirk and I both kind of actively recruit for CFOA and try to bring in new officials and I've honestly met some women who I thought would be great, great fits in the sport. You know I go to football parties on Sunday. We watch football games together and there's women you know friends that I have that know the rules, you know the NFL better than I do on some of these plays and I asked them why don't you want to get out there? And there seems to be some apprehension. Katelyn did that. You know I've never played the sport so I wouldn't feel right Officiating it. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that? And if you know, if you're a female, it's really passionate about the game that there's still an avenue for you to be involved and it's okay that you haven't played the sports.

Speaker 2: 8:20

I would say there isn't a sport out there that you have to play in order to officiate, and If you're willing to learn the mechanics, learn the rules and work with other people to improve, you can officiate any sport you want. Football is no different. I would say the biggest challenge in officiating any sport is one if you're close to the parents. We know that that can be a huge challenge. With football that's not really an issue. Rarely you'll go out to a small town and they end up kind of cramming next to the field. That's probably the only time that that might happen.

Speaker 2: 9:05

The other challenge I would say that can drive people away is if coaches are really unruly and abusive. But I don't think that's been something that I've encountered in the Colorado Springs area. So as long as those two reasons aren't out there, if that's not the concern, then playing the sport doesn't even come into play. It's a matter of putting forth the effort to learn the rules, the mechanics, be coachable and work with the team, because that's what your crew is is a team. We're kind of the second team sport on the field, and so I think anybody should do it If they have a passion for the game or they love the game. It's so much better being on the field than watching it from the sideline, but you do miss a lot when you're on the field. It's not about watching the game, it's being involved in the game.

Speaker 3: 10:06

Awesome, one of the things that tends to be clumsy and you were talking about reasons people might not want to get involved. I want you to talk a little bit about that whole pregame situation. The officials come out of a tiny little locker room. A lot of times they give us just a cracker box of a space to get ready in and, being a female and there's males in there and needing to coordinate some of that stuff, there's likely to be some uncomfortable situations where you're having to disconnect and take care of yourself in your pregame dressing and things like that because we do travel some distance. Can you talk through that? Is there some uncomfortableness there, or how do you work through it and maybe even help some of our listeners that are maybe managing that themselves?

Speaker 2: 10:52

Yeah, it can definitely be an awkward situation, especially if you're in a mixed crew or working with people that you haven't worked with before. So generally we do have crews and they're very familiar with one another. So once you're in the season it's pretty comfortable. But I will say, going into the post season, where you're starting to work with different people, it does create awkward scenarios. But I think I've been very proactive in that and not really relying on the white hat to to fix that situation for me.

Speaker 2: 11:28

I will reach out to the area directors, athletic directors, and request information on what possibilities they have, if there are possibilities, and then I prepare so I may have to wear extra unders just so that I can undress down to leggings and have undershirts already, and or come with my pants on already or just have to throw a shirt on. It just depends on the weather, the location and then the accommodations that some of the schools can or don't have. But outside of that you have several locations that have a split wall or they have a different room. I can excuse myself and go use the actual women's facilities and then at times I'm dealing with fans or parents or whatever, but no one's ever been rude or made that an uncomfortable situation. I get more encouragement for being out there, and so that situation hasn't really been an overwhelming issue.

Speaker 3: 12:37

I really like the emphasis you put on. You almost have to be on the offense with that If maybe a female comes in and expects they might be disappointed and then that generates some degradation and interest in continuing. So I really appreciate that. That your approach to that has obviously been successful for you, so thank you for providing that, of course.

Speaker 1: 12:58

So, katelyn, we've talked a lot in this podcast and the issues about dealing with coaches especially that you had mentioned kind of being a turnoff, not just for female officials but for all officials right and the first time official getting sort of chewed on by a coach can be tough. I've got a background in law enforcement and one of the things I noticed back in those days was when we would send a female officer on what we call a hot call and they interacted with a male. They tend to deescalate those situations better than another male could. So sometimes there were certain calls that females were better to go on than male officers. Do you find that it's an advantage for you as a female on the field with a coach, or do you feel like they're just as aggressive with you as they would be with Kerk and I?

Speaker 2: 13:44

I think it's maybe not so much an advantage for sure, because it is frustrating to deal with, but I will agree that I have a tendency myself to deescalate issues a little bit quicker than some of my counterparts. I've even helped fellow officials avoid responding to a coach by helping them walk off, you know, and say if I'm working the wing and the back judge is upset, I'll go walk out at a dead ball and say hey, hey, don't respond. You know, don't worry about it, let it go. And with coaches it's just a matter of being confident but being honest.

Speaker 2: 14:29

I think If there's a play that they thought that hey, you missed that, there is definitely a hold. I just ask a simple question Coach, what did you see? And if that's truly what you saw, I may have missed it, but this is what I saw and then it's over. There's really no tolerance for, you know, real abuse. And if you set that line in the beginning, then I think it's fine for the rest of that game and really for the season, because they remember you. If you set that line and you stick with it and you're willing to be confident. But yet honest, I don't think those coaches' issues continue.

Speaker 3: 15:14

Kay, linda, that's great stuff and it's probably a reason why you're advancing in the association so well and congratulations.

Speaker 3: 15:23

All those things are so beneficial to not only the newer officials but even some of our veterans that can learn from others.

Speaker 3: 15:30

So we're trying to focus a little bit on the newer officials in getting started in the game and in this your response to this question is applicable to men and women that are getting started the first time, and maybe even that's a better answer from you. A lot of times we talk about that. An official decides that he wants to start officiating because, oh, I've watched this game. I've played this game since I was six years old, I know all about it and then we put them in a rules test and they fail and they're thinking wait a second, I got to spend time studying, I'm done studying, I don't need to go to class, and so they get frustrated and so maybe this is a benefit to somebody that hasn't played the game. But talk a little bit about recommendations to those newer officials, some advice you might have as you entered into this game about the rules and mechanics that we talk about and where you have to stand, what you have to look at in order to be successful in that first year and want to come back for another year.

Speaker 2: 16:34

I would say the best advice for someone coming in to this sport or any sport is to forget what you know. Come in with a clean slate. Come in coachable and be open to learning and understanding that what you've seen in the past, what you watch on TV, isn't necessarily correct, especially when you come into high school sports, because so many of us watch college or we watch professional sports on TV and the rulings are going to be different. So don't assume that you've played the sport. You know the sport. Be open to learning what this particular level or sport has to teach you and be ready to study. Be ready to knock out maybe 30 minutes a night prior to the season, even as a veteran, to go review, read the rule book.

Speaker 2: 17:39

I am a very visual person so I can read that rule book 50 times, but until I can visualize it and put it in a video or actually see the play, it's not 100% there and in a season you're going to see quite a bit, but I think every official has the opportunity to learn something new and being able to see different things. Or watching games learning how to watch a game, because when we watch it on TV, we're looking at the ball we're looking at. You know, hey, you know what happened over there, but the action may have been to the side and behind and you got to learn what you should be watching too.

Speaker 3: 18:26

Joel, I'm not sure, but one of us should probably get fired and Kay Linda should probably be in one of these seats that we're in on these podcasts.

Speaker 1: 18:32

Yeah, they could fire you.

Speaker 2: 18:33

I'll fire you.

Speaker 3: 18:35

Which one of us should go, but one of us needs to get out of it.

Speaker 1: 18:38

I was hoping you could give Kirk and I some advice and we really want to attract more women to the sport, more women to the association. Next week we're going to be talking our next episode to Claire Gosman, and I'm sure you know who Claire is. You know he says there's opportunities for women at all levels of the game. So for college and the NFL, can you talk a little bit maybe about career path and you know where you see the opportunity for women and maybe a little bit about your own goals? Right, do you have visions for getting to in Colorado? The college is the RMAC here, so that'd be division two. Do you have aspirations to move up and do college and maybe be the next Sarah Thomas?

Speaker 2: 19:20

Well, I don't know about being that, but I have been involved in some college trainings and considered considering the RMAC route. That's still something that I want to have the option to do. I am a little older so I don't know how many years I can actually do that, but it's still an opportunity to look at and I think for, I think for people who want to get into this, and especially women. I just think you need to have that mentorship and you need to have a group that if it's the Denver group or if it's the Colorado Springs group that are willing to break off and actually spend some time to train the women and really make them important. We do training in Colorado Springs. If women are pulled into a specific training that's offered for the women who want to get involved, it sets them apart and gives them that time and that encouragement and the confidence that they need to say yes.

Speaker 2: 20:42

I want to do this Because if you go into our normal trainings and you're one or two women in a room of 10 to 15 men and these men have a tendency to argue points that sometimes there's never really an answer for, because there's so many things that are subjective all of a sudden. It's difficult for the women to feel like they are a part of that, giving them two or three different sessions ago. This is for the women only. If you want to get involved, come, we'll talk about the rules. We'll talk about what you think. What you feel, what's holding you back and what you need to move forward. I think that more women would come out and do it.

Speaker 1: 21:29

That's good advice, kirk. I think maybe we should take a lesson out of that, because we do have several female officials in Denver maybe doing just kind of a women's only session and asking one of our veteran women officials to lead that group.

Speaker 3: 21:41

Yeah, kalinda, you've given me so much insight into how we can do better as leadership in Denver and statewide in being more inviting and providing these things that you just described. It's awesome this has been so powerful. We've in Denver. We're fortunate. I worked one of my five A state championship games with Deborah Schomburg, who's a back judge female official. She's been doing it for years and just an outstanding person and the de-escalation skills that she has I could never find. She's just so good at that and an outstanding official. Obviously we're going to wrap this up, kalinda. Thank you. This was awesome For the audience.

Speaker 3: 22:29

I wanted to point out that we talked about RMAC. A lot of folks around the country might not know what RMAC is. That's Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference. It's a Division II college program. Colorado has got several of those schools. That's the stepping stone to D1 for a lot of our high school officials. We don't have junior college football in the state of Colorado, so that's a way for folks to advance. Kalinda, I think you've got a great future if you want it to move up to that level. For the audience that wouldn't know this Kalinda is not real tall. A lot of times you assume that a female official has got to look like one of those rugby players that decides to start officiating football. She's a beautiful 5'2 female and obviously just excellent in this trade. Even height should not restrict your interest in officiating football, kalinda. I think we'll wrap that up. Thank you, you were awesome. We almost have to do it again with you because I think there's probably so much more that you can educate us and our audience with.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Thank you again, Kalinda. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Absolutely. I appreciate it, guys. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 23:43

As we head out of week five, Kirk and I want to thank Kalinda Bennell from the Colorado Springs Association for joining us this week, and also for Zach from Michigan for sending in his question. Just remember, if you want to get in touch with Kirk and I want us to address a particular topic or answer something for you, give us a shout on the website YourFirstDownscom. Again, that is your FirstDownscom. Have a great rest of your week and we'll see you next week for week six.